2 November 2013 – unfair administration by police
This is an update on the Q&A “11 October 2013 – Police delay issuing Pedlars Certificate”
(Chronology of this sequence of communication begins at the bottom with latest at top).
From: Pedlars Admin <pedlars.admin@gmail.com>;
Subject: Fwd: John [surname redacted] Application for Pedlars Certificate
Date: 2 November 2013 22:15:29 GMT
To: [email redacted]
Dear John
Pedlars.info is pleased to forward this message confirming that your pedlars certificate will now be granted.
This series of communications on your behalf will be forwarded to government to indicate what nonsense pedlars are subject to on a daily basis.
Very best wishes from all of us at pedlars.info who have worked on your case.
Robert
Begin forwarded message:
From: “Jones, Dewi (T/Insp 230)” <Dewi.Jones@nthwales.pnn.police.uk>;
Date: 2 November 2013 21:35:57 GMT
To: Pedlars Admin <pedlars.admin@gmail.com>;
Subject: RE: John [surname redacted] Application for Pedlars Certificate
Mr Campbell-Lloyd
Many thanks for your update – I am now in a position to process the application. My suitability report will have been completed over the weekend and forwarded to the Administrates for processing, the report will recommend granting of the Pedlars certificate.
I would be grateful if you could kindly update your client.
Regards.
Dewi Jones
Arolygydd Dros Dro/Temporary Inspector
Ardal De Gorllewin / Gwynedd South District
From: Pedlars Admin [mailto:pedlars.admin@gmail.com]
Sent: 31 October 2013 09:30
To: Jones, Dewi (T/Insp 230)
Subject: Re: John [surname redacted] Application for Pedlars Certificate
Dear Mr Jones
In reply to your 3 questions:
a. The intended purpose of the Pedlar’s certificate.
The applicant is aware of resource information available at pedlars.info.
In particular he is aware of Section 3 of the Pedlars Act and the principles that differentiate certified pedlary from licensed street trading and the exemption from street trading regulation whilst acting as a pedlar. The applicant is updated regularly with information and articles concerning pedlary.
The intended purpose of the pedlars certificate is found in the Pedlars Act 1871 & 1881.
The applicants intended purpose in applying for a pedlars certificate is previously summarised in this attached correspondence:
The applicants intended goods are buckets & spades but he reserves the right to change what goods are traded at any time as per the Pedlars Act.
The applicants intended means of operation are ambulant as distinct from static.
The applicant intends using a pedestrian device for carrying/displaying goods and reserves the right to modify such device for the purpose.
b. Recognition of the case law previously referred and that he would not be static for periods of time
The applicant is aware of case law provided as a reference resource at pedlars.info
c. Recognition that he does have to be on the move and more than a few yards at a time
The applicant is aware that the notion of a pedlar remaining in perpetual motion was rejected in Tunbridge Wells – v – Dunn and by Parliament in Select Committee on the Bournemouth & Manchester bills.
The applicant is aware that case law exists on its own facts and legal argument.
The applicant reiterates that he intends at all relevant times to act as a pedlar as distinct from a static licensed trader.
I trust that no further grounds will be found to delay issuing the applicants certificate.
Yours sincerely
R Campbell-Lloyd
admin
cc applicant
On 30 Oct 2013, at 16:08, Jones, Dewi (T/Insp 230) wrote:
Mr Campbell-Lloyd
With reference to your below correspondence:-
1. You have made a Freedom of Information request in relation to a North Wales Policy – this in itself triggers a method of response that is dealt with by a different department. Your request will not have any effect on how the application for the Pedlar’s Certificate is processed.
2. My reference to the relevant case law is key to this application having regard to the background issues that have been raised locally – my intention is not to refuse the application but to ensure that your client has a full understanding of potential restrictions that this application places upon when trading locally.
3. You make reference to the Criteria for Certificate application “Good faith intent to act as a Pedlar”, therefore your client would need to have relevant knowledge of the Croydon London Borough Council v Burdon or otherwise he could be acting outside the boundaries of a Pedlar. My request for additional information from your client is not in my opinion unreasonable and in fact highlights to him his obligations to act within the spirit of the law. My request is re-iterated, I would like the following additional information included and hope that you will assist your client in completing:
a. The intended purpose of the Pedlar’s certificate.
b. Recognition of the case law previously referred and that he would not be static for periods of time.
c. Recognition that he does have to be on the move and more than a few yards at a time.
4. As previously stated, once I have received these assurances, I will then be in a position to complete my suitability report and process the application.
I would be obliged if you could keep your client appraised of the current position.
Regards.
Dewi Jones
Arolygydd Dros Dro/Temporary Inspector
Ardal De Gorllewin / Gwynedd South District
From: Pedlars Admin [mailto:pedlars.admin@gmail.com]
Sent: 29 October 2013 10:18
To: Jones, Dewi (T/Insp 230)
Subject: Re: John [surname redacted] Application for Pedlars Certificate
Dear Mr Jones
John [surname redacted] Application for Pedlars Certificate
Thank you for your reply.
We have now also received notification from FoI not to expect a reply until 25 November.
It is unfortunate that whilst cognisant of “recent issued guidance” you prefer not to provide that information in your reply.
You refer to selective case law that appears by intent to further prolong this application process.
Such reliance may be considered ultra vires in a pedlar’s certificate application process and befits only the process of a Court prosecution for alleged offence.
You unreasonably request the applicant commit in writing interpretation of legislation and limited case law with apparent intent that you may not progress the application.
The Pedlars Act provides the criteria for a certificate application namely, over 17, 1 month residency in the jurisdiction, 2 householder character references and in good faith intent to act as a pedlar.
We believe the applicant has fulfilled the lawful criteria and that the application process has been subject to unfair administration for some 15 months.
We consider your request that the Applicant “provide additional written explanation” is too vague for an informed response.
The Pedlars Act Section 3 provides legislative descriptions of the applicants proposed activities as a pedlar.
Please therefore assist the applicant by listing precise questions that he is required to answer by law or local policy.
To assist transparent government policy consultation on problems with and reform of street trading and pedlary such communications are subject to disclosure and your footnote unacceptable.
Time is of the essence.
Yours sincerely
R Campbell-Lloyd
admin
cc applicant
On 28 Oct 2013, at 18:18, Jones, Dewi (T/Insp 230) wrote:
Mr Campell-Lloyd
I have today spoken to Mr [surname redacted] and he has indicated that you now representing him, therefore I will update yourself with the current position and I am sure you will update him accordingly.
You raise a number of issues which I will address as below:-
1. I met your client on 7th October to discuss his application, unfortunately Insp Armstrong who was dealing with the matter has not been available since August 2013. I was made aware of the application and some concerns that and been raised in relation to its intended use and equipment. I have met with your client at the first available opportunity.
2. I have discussed the application with our local administration and was made aware of North Wales Police recent issued guidance which seemed to be at odds with the application – as a result of this additional guidance was sought. I have also sought guidance from our legal services in relation to this and your clients intended use. Legal advice sought to give clarity and took cognisance of the following Croydon London Borough Council v Burdon [2002] EWHC 1961 (Admin), [2003] EHLR 3, [2002] All ER (D) 20 (Aug)(defendant moving trolley ‘a few yards from time to time’ during course of two hour period not acting at all material times as pedlar).
3. I have then further reviewed your clients application and note under the section
a. Please summarise what you intend to use your Pedlar’s Certificate for: your clients reply was as follows “ I am by trade and occupation a pedlar. I rely on the fact that I am able to move and do move”
b. I have asked your client to provide additional written explanation taking into consideration the London Borough Council v Burdon case. I indicated to your client once I receive this further information then I would be in a position to process the application.
4. I note your request under the freedom of information, the relevant department that deal with these matters have been informed of your request.
5. The procedure for lodging a formal complaint is via the North Wales Police Professional Standards Department or alternatively you also have the option of doing so via the IPCC.
How do I make a complaint?
You can make your complaint in any of the following ways:
Go to any police station and ask for your complaint to be recorded. A list of police stations can be found here.
Contact the Professional Standards Department on 01492 805427 or write to the Detective Superintendent of the Professional Standards Department at Police HQ, Glan Y Don, Colwyn Bay LL29 8AW or email: ProfStandardsEnquiries@nthwales.pnn.police.uk
Complete a complaint form online
Contact the IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Commission) 90 High Holborn, London, WC1V 6BH, Tel: 0300 020 0096. The IPCC have produced a guide to the complaint process and a complaint form: http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/complaints-and-appeals/information-police-officers-and-staff
Go to a solicitor or your MP and ask them to make a complaint for you; they will require your written consent to act on your behalf. (If you would like someone to act on your behalf, such as a relative or friend, they will also require your written consent).
Complaints about general policing standards or the operational policies and procedures of North Wales Police are dealt with separately from complaints about individual Officers or Staff and should be directed to North Wales Police, not the IPCC.
a.
Regards.
Dewi Jones
Arolygydd Dros Dro/Temporary Inspector
Ardal De Gorllewin / Gwynedd South District
From: Pedlars Admin [mailto:pedlars.admin@gmail.com]
Sent: 28 October 2013 15:46
To: Jones, Dewi (T/Insp 230)
Subject: Fwd: John [surname redacted] Application for Pedlars Certificate
Dear Mr Jones
Your telephone call to Mr [surname redacted] last night 27 October
I have today at 12.43 left an answer message at the above telephone number obtained from Mr [surname redacted] who this morning informed us that you telephoned him last evening to say that you had not received any email communications from him or from pedlars.info.
I have now been informed by North Wales Police (OCD) via email enquiry that there was an error in the address of my earlier emails to you and which are herewith attached for your attention (oldest at the bottom).
I am cc’ing Mr [surname redacted] into this.
I look forward to your earliest response.
Yours sincerely
R Campbell-Lloyd
admin at pedlars.info
Begin forwarded message:
From: Pedlars Admin <pedlars.admin@gmail.com>;
Date: 24 October 2013 12:51:07 GMT+01:00
To: dewi.jones@nthwales.pnn.police.uk230
Subject: Fwd: John [surname redacted] Application for Pedlars Certificate
Dear Mr Jones
Your telephone call to Mr [surname redacted] this morning 24 Oct
Mr [surname redacted] is distressed by your call to him today and has requested that we write to you once again on his behalf.
He said that you asked that he place in writing “how he intends to use a pedlar’s certificate”.
He considers this wholly unnecessary as the Pedlars Act provides that information… in good faith he intends to act as a pedlar.
If this account is correct then it is not only prolonging unfair administration but your actions may be ultra vires as such is not required in law.
He has raised his complaint with the Police Commissioner’s office.
I note that you have not replied to my email 22 October.
Yours sincerely
R Campbell–Lloyd
admin
Begin forwarded message:
From: Pedlars Admin <pedlars.admin@gmail.com>;
Date: 22 October 2013 11:41:22 GMT+01:00
To: dewi.jones@nthwales.pnn.police.uk230
Subject: Fwd: John [surname redacted] Application for Pedlars Certificate
Dear Mr Jones
FOI Request
I note that you have not responded to my communication 16 October 2013 on behalf of the Applicant.
I requested copy of your reference to “official policy” and “further developments”.
In the absence of a reply please now escalate this enquiry to a formal Freedom of Information enquiry.
Communication with Applicant
We have today heard from Mr [surname redacted] that you telephoned him last week informing him that “his pedlar trading activity does not include walking/trading in the street and may only occur on the door step of houses”. He said that you undertook to ring him back after further research but that to date you have not. He also said that “if you are not happy you can appeal to the Court”.
If these are accurate accounts of the conversation then they indicate a profound lack of knowledge and reliance on personal opinion unrelated to law.
It is clear that in some 16 months you have either failed to become competent in pedlary law or that by intent you are failing fair administration.
Please be aware that a pedlars certificate is not required for door-to-door sales under £35.
herewith the legislative link: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1816/contents/made
– see Schedule 3 Exempted Contracts paragraph 6 “Any contract not falling within paragraph 5 under which the total payments to be made by the consumer do not exceed £35”.
Formal Complaint
This sequence of communication is providing grounds for a formal complaint to the Chief Officer of Police and if further ignored a complaint to IPCC.
Please inform me within 5 days of the procedure for lodging a Formal Complaint.
Government Consultation
To assist government consultation in formulating policy to amend the Pedlars Act such communications as these are made public at pedlars.info as transparent evidence of difficulties currently experienced by pedlars.
I await your replies.
Yours sincerely
R Campbell-Lloyd
admin at pedlars.info
Begin forwarded message:
From: Pedlars Admin <pedlars.admin@gmail.com>;
Date: 16 October 2013 10:44:11 GMT+01:00
To: dewi.jones@nthwales.pnn.police.uk230
Subject: John [surname redacted] Application for Pedlars Certificate
Dear Mr Jones
John [surname redacted] – Application for Pedlars Certificate
You will recall that we spoke on 11 October 11.15am and I gave you my email address if you required further clarification about Mr [surname redacted] application for a Pedlars Certificate. I did not hear back from you but the applicant telephoned me yesterday very concerned that his application may not be receiving fair administration. He said that you informed him by telephone that the police local policy regarding pedlary changed in August and that you were awaiting further developments in November prior to considering issuing a certificate.
He has asked that I undertake some clarification with you directly and will confirm my authority to act on his behalf if required – please let me know if you require him to verify my authority.
My function as a parliamentary agent and administrator at pedlars.info is to assist both regulators and the regulated.
To this end please provide me copy or a link to the “official policy” to which your discussion with Mr [surname redacted] referred.
Please also provide me with a statement about what “further developments” you expect and/or rely on.
The latter may be referring to the BIS consultation outcome [URN12/605 & 606 on street trading & pedlary] which has been awaited since early this year and the only timetable indications that stakeholders have heard from government is that final policy formulation and report publication awaits a pedlar stakeholder meeting at BIS in November. No dates or agenda have yet been proposed.
Mr [surname redacted] concern was logged at pedlars.info in June 2012 when having paid for a Pedlars Certificate Application to be processed he was, and has subsequently been subjected to unnecessary delays and questions initially about what goods he intended to trade, and then followed by scale and proportion of intended apparatus. I discussed with you in some detail why it is that existing legislation [Pedlars Act] provides no limitations on a pedlar’s lawful activity and that local authority street trading regulations [LG(MP)A Schedule 4] have no effect on those trading and acting as a pedlar. No reliance can be made on any other legislation as there is none. I informed you about the evolution of private Acts in other jurisdictions to indicate only that in those jurisdictions pedlary is conditioned, not on what goods may be traded but on scale and proportion of apparatus only, and that Mr [surname redacted] proposed apparatus is well within those limits. I also informed you about the government consultation that I have been formally involved with since 2007 and I invited you to email me with any questions that may prevent your completion of the application process and issuance of a Pedlars Certificate.
I do hope that you will provide me with the information requested as pedlars.info may then be in a position to inform its readership of resolution or otherwise of this local concern for fair administration in a pedlar’s certificate application process.
We look forward to your earliest reply.
Yours sincerely
Robert Campbell-Lloyd
robert@pedlars.info
cc to John