3 Sept 2013 – Troubles in Stoke on Trent & Rugby
Simon emailed pedlars.info about problems faced in Stoke on Trent & Rugby 3 Sept 2013:
Hello Robert,
I have had another couple of problems in when peddling, first in Stoke on Trent on 23rd August and then in Rugby last Thursday 29th August. I need to sort things out and was hoping for some advice please.
I had been peddling in Stoke for about 1 hour when a rather rude and arrogant woman called Charlotte Emery actually ran up to me. She was the market manager. “What the hell do you think you are doing?” Basically she said peddling meant I had to carry my stuff and produced a piece of paper with a Stoke on Trent heading which ‘confirmed this’. She wouldn’t give me a copy but instead phoned the police, who appeared 30 minutes later.
He was PC Anthony Williams, collar number 5804, and, to be honest, he was perfectly charming. He examined my pedlars licence, admitted there was nothing wrong with it, then went to talk to that Emery woman, on the phone, before rather apologetically telling me that I had to leave because the peddling laws were rather ambiguous and the manager wanted me off. If I did not leave he would be forced to arrest me. He did say that Stoke council would write to me, but they haven’t.
I have his email address so thought I would write to him a similar letter that you helped me compose to West Midland police and wait for his reply before returning to Stoke, as I must.
I had been peddling in Rugby from about 10.30 quite happily when a Rugby Ranger called Rob approached me at 2.30 and explained that pedlars licences weren’t recognised in Warwickshire. I needed to phone Rugby First on 01788 569436 and get permission. As I hadn’t got permission I had to leave. He then proceeded to follow me all the way back to my van, which took quite a while as I was trying to ignore him and had a few sales on the way. He kept saying ‘just go, go, just go,’.
I asked him if he knew anything about the pedlars laws, and he admitted he didn’t. I accused him of harassment, the miserable unpleasant bugger.
Sales were good in Rugby and I will be returning but I would rather do it in a friendly way. I do think that Rugby council should be told about the behaviour of this Rob bloke, who wouldn’t tell me his surname.
Anyway, thanks for any advice you could give me.
Regards, Simon
reply from pedlars.info 4 Sept 2013:
Simon
These are tales of ignorance about the law… by all parties concerned… you included… you should print and copy legislation from this link:
https://pedlars.info/1847-markets-a-fairs-clauses-act
You should write to Ms Emery and PC Williams and inform them about the law and invite them to provide courteous assistance when next in Stoke-on-Trent. They may also contact robert@pedlars.info if they require legislative references.
I couldn’t find any info on Stoke on Trent website… perhaps you can… or call them for direction to an online doc.
You can also refer them to case law:
https://pedlars.info/1994-shepway-v-vincent
This provides that a pedlar may use a pedestrian means of carrying goods.
Alternatively… caution PC Williams that if arrested you will press charges for “wrongful arrest” and will seek “damages for loss of earnings”.
…
Unless Rugby has devolved a fiefdom from the United Kingdom then it remains very much a part of the UK and subject to UK legislation which includes the Pedlars Act.
That you are told “Rugby doesn’t recognise the Pedlars Act or a pedlars certificate” is wishful thinking and the Rugby Ranger was acting ultra vires.
You should therefore register a formal written complaint to Rugby First about officer Rob attitude & ignorance.
Robert
Simon then sent letter to officer 9 Sept 2013:
Dear PC Williams,
As you will recall, I was peddling my Bonsai trees in Stoke on Trent city centre on Friday 23rd August. You were called to speak to me by the market manager, Charlotte Emery, who, may I add, is a very aggressive, rude and extremely unpleasant woman. A misunderstanding on the pedlars laws meant that I was forced to leave, something which obviously meant I lost a lot of money and upset me quite a lot.
You suggested that the peddling laws were ambiguous. The opposite is actually true. They quite clearly state that what I was doing was lawful, and what you did was wrong. Links to the appropriate laws can be found at
https://pedlars.info/1847-markets-a-fairs-clauses-act and
https://pedlars.info/1994-shepway-v-vincent.
If you need any legislative references then you can contact robert@pedlars.info.
I would like to pedal again in Stoke and would very much appreciate a letter from you stating that you will leave me well alone. If you harass me next time, I may be forced to press charges for “wrongful arrest” and will seek “damages for loss of earnings”.
Looking forward to hearing from you soon.
Kind regards,
Simon
Officer’s reply to Simon 2 Oct 2013:
Mr Bundred
Thank you for your email.
I attended (in company with my colleague PC SHAKOOR) and spoke to you on the day due to a request from the Duty Market Officer and acted upon information received from her and her supervisor.
I was not harassing you, I was doing my job, and would do the same again should I be required to do so.
You were spoken to professionally and politely, a fact that I also confirmed with your partner to whom I handed my contact card.
Should the need arise you will be spoken to again by myself or more likely my colleagues and therefore, I will not be issuing you with any such letter stating that I or in fact Staffordshire Police will ‘leave you well alone.’
I did not threaten to arrest you at any time, and I explained that it was a civil dispute to be resolved amicably between yourself and the managers of Stoke On Trent City Council as per the VDU reference number I passed you.
If you have any issues regarding plying your trade in Stoke-on-Trent I suggest you contact Stoke-on-Trent Council directly for whatever guidelines they provide.
Regards
PC WILLIAMS
Simon asked for further assistance from pedlars.info on 2 Oct 2013:
Hello Robert,
A few weeks ago I peddled in Stoke on Trent and was stopped by a policeman . I wrote to tell you about it and you kindly gave me some advice. I wrote to the policeman, and he has replied, as above. Please could you give me some more advice on what I should do next.
Thank you,
Simon
pedlars.info replied 3 Oct 2013:
Simon
Stoke on Trent market manager / Rugby First Ranger & Staffordshire Police
The reply from PC Williams shows how important it is that you are extremely accurate with all communications… “leave you well alone” fails such test.
The police officer has dismissed your allegation of harassment correctly but what he hasn’t done is confirm your trading rights under the Pedlars Act.
The primary issue with PC Williams is that he failed to protect your trading rights under the Pedlars Act in preference to accepting ignorance of law by the Stoke market manager Charlotte Emery and Rob employed by Rugby First… it is they who have caused the problem and it is they whom you should have written a formal complaint with copy to PC Williams so that all parties were informed.
PC Williams may now be better informed but he has not acknowledged the error of advising you to leave (not denied) under threat of arrest (denied) and you don’t know what information has been sent on to the market manager and Rugby First.
You need also find out the role of Cheryl Hannan?
What is the VDU reference?
To tidy all this up now requires further communication.
We suggest that pedlars.info draft a letter to PC Williams with cc to Cheryl Hannan.
With further letter to the Stoke market manager once we have email details.
Ditto Rugby First’s Rob once we have his details.
You will now understand how important it is to have good contemporaneous notes of all incidents.
Such information as your “partner” having witnessed the threat of arrest and the intimidation as contemporaneous notes can be produced as evidence and relied upon in Court.
Simon… pedlars.info does not exist without donations from those who appreciate the work by its volunteers. If the issues in Stoke on Trent & Rugby are worth resolving to enable you to trade there again then please consider instructing us to act on your behalf with a worthy donation. We make no guarantees and are not qualified to practice law but we provide the best advice that we can.
Any communications that we prepare on your behalf are sent to your for checking accuracy and giving approval before sending.
Await your reply with all the missing info.
Robert