9 December 2013 – Stoke-on-Trent Pedlar Police & Council
24 October 2014 update from pedlars Simon in Stoke:
Hello Robert,
Peddling in Stoke on Trent. Within 2 minutes of arriving in that city centre I what is accosted by the town center manager. A man called Peter Thornley. He wanted 20 pounds off me but when i told him that you had been in contact with stoke city management he backed down completely. So thank you very much for all your help.
Regards simon.
In September pedlar Simon wrote about problems in Stoke-on-Trent and Rugby… scroll to bottom of page to begin viewing the correspondence.
On 9 December 2013 pedlars.info wrote to Rob Nixon:
Robert
Thank you for your reply.
You correctly identify the nature of my administrative function as defensive and for good reason… for the benefit of all concerned.
You will appreciate that each case rests on its own facts and that all case law continues to evolve.
You have quoted without full reference some paraphrased opinions that cannot be understood in isolation.
Interpretation therefore remains ambiguous and a pedlar relies on Pepper-v-Hart.
I trust that you accept that a pedlar is a lawful street trader [certified] who whilst “acting as a pedlar is not street trading for the purposes of Schedule 4 Street Trading” of the LGMPA.
An alleged offence under Schedule 4 for “street trading without a street trading licence” is redundant if the certified pedlar is acting as a pedlar and any prosecution must first establish the facts that a pedlar was not acting as a pedlar.
Licensing authorities often attempt to ignore what is common to both certified & licensed street trading namely “selling, exposing or offering of goods”.
The question to be considered is therefore what differentiates the two street trading activities and this is the subject of most articles at pedlars.info in providing transparent consultation with government. A recent article may assist.
Your conclusion that a pedlar must act in accordance with Schedule 4 of the LGMPA is simply wrong as there is nothing within that Schedule that describes the activities of a pedlar. The legislative intention of Schedule 4 is to regulate static traders in designated streets and to provide for exemption of nine activities that are not street trading.
It is correct to say that a pedlar must act in accordance with the Pedlars Act.
A pedlar is also described as a hawker who does not carry goods on his person but uses other means to do so.
The only question for the judiciary to determine on matters of fact concern the scale and proportion of a pedlar’s means of operation.
Recent developments in legislation provide the following guidance:
Bournemouth and Manchester Acts provide a pedlar’s apparatus volumetric capacity of 1 cubic metre.
Reading, Leeds, Canterbury & Nottingham Acts provide the actual maximum trolley measurements of width 0.75m, depth 0.5m, height 1.25m with display (handle included) not exceeding width 0.88m, depth 0.83m, height 1.63m.
These latter measures give volumetric capacity of 0.47 cubic metres for the trolley and 1.19 cubic metres for the display.
You are aware that current government proposals provide 1m x 1m x 2m high for a pedlars means of operation.
We refer you also to pedlars Third Option proposed amendment to the Pedlars Act of “pedestrian means”.
I hope this assists in the matter of clarifying interpretation.
We are happy to provide guidance to any pedlars that you consider are not acting properly.
Your sincerely
Robert
admin
cc Staffordshire Police Anthony Williams, Simon Bundred, BIS Paul Bland
On 6 December 2013 Rob Nixon, Markets Manager at Stoke-on-Trent Council wrote:
Robert,
You appear to have changed your communication strategy from that of an informal and open dialogue to one of a defensive nature which is unfortunate.
I apologise that I had not been able to respond more fully to your last e-mail but had not seen the urgency of it and had been busy with other market matter.
I assume that you would also accept that given the various court cases over the years that have given a degree of clarity to the issue that the Pedlars Act means:
· You must trade as you travel , as distinct from a person who merely travels to a particular location to trade. Therefore a trader who sells, or exposes for sale, goods from a portable stand in a street cannot be classed as a pedlar as he or she would be inviting customers to come to them.
· You must go from “ …town to town… “ and this would imply that the pedlar would not keep returning to the same town or street on a daily basis.
· You should only stop when some-one wants to buy something from you or when resting, and when resting the goods should not be exposed for sale.
I refer to the London Borough of Croyden V William Burden 2002 judgement extract
“.. It seems to me that the crucial point in this case is to look at the periods of time of which B was stationary, the distance that he moved and the nature of his conduct whilst he was stationary for the purpose of selling…it is my judgement that some-one who is:
o Habitually stationary for periods of certainly at least 15 minutes;
o Often in excess of half an hour; and on one occasion in excess of an hour;
o Who during those stationary periods sells intermittently to members of the public; but has not stopped for the purpose of selling to a specific member of the public, is properly to be described as some-one who is engaged in street trading and not being a pedlar.”
· You may use a small-wheeled trolley to help in carrying your goods but not a device to expose for sale all or the greater majority of your goods.
To conclude our dialogue therefore;
Subject to any future change in law that may impact upon pedlars or street trading I can see no reason to object to a pedlar visiting Stoke-on-Trent as long as they act as a pedlar as defined in the 1871 Pedlars Act and in accordance with Schedule 4 of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1982.
Regards
rob
On 4 September pedlars.info replied
Simon
These are tales of ignorance about the law… by all parties concerned… you included… you should print and copy legislation from this link:
https://pedlars.info/1847-markets-a-fairs-clauses-act
You should write to Ms Emery and PC Williams and inform them about the law and invite them to provide courteous assistance when next in Stoke-on-Trent. They may also contact robert@pedlars.info if they require legislative references.
I couldn’t find any info on Stoke on Trent website… perhaps you can… or call them for direction to an online doc.
You can also refer them to case law:
https://pedlars.info/1994-shepway-v-vincent
This provides that a pedlar may use a pedestrian means of carrying goods.
Alternatively… caution PC Williams that if arrested you will press charges for “wrongful arrest” and will seek “damages for loss of earnings”.
…
Unless Rugby has devolved a fiefdom from the United Kingdom then it remains very much a part of the UK and subject to UK legislation which includes the Pedlars Act.
That you are told “Rugby doesn’t recognise the Pedlars Act or a pedlars certificate” is wishful thinking and the Rugby Ranger was acting ultra vires.
You should therefore register a formal written complaint to Rugby First about officer Rob attitude & ignorance.
Robert
On 3 Sep 2013, at 23:25, Simon [redacted] wrote:
Hello Robert,
I have had another couple of problems in when peddling, first in Stoke on Trent on 23rd August and then in Rugby last Thursday 29th August. I need to sort things out and was hoping for some advice please.
I had been peddling in Stoke for about 1 hour when a rather rude and arrogant woman called Charlotte Emery actually ran up to me. She was the market manager. “What the hell do you think you are doing?” Basically she said peddling meant I had to carry my stuff and produced a piece of paper with a Stoke on Trent heading which ‘confirmed this’. She wouldn’t give me a copy but instead phoned the police, who appeared 30 minutes later.
He was PC Anthony Williams, collar number 5804, and, to be honest, he was perfectly charming. He examined my pedlars licence, admitted there was nothing wrong with it, then went to talk to that Emery woman, on the phone, before rather apologetically telling me that I had to leave because the peddling laws were rather ambiguous and the manager wanted me off. If I did not leave he would be forced to arrest me. He did say that Stoke council would write to me, but they haven’t.
I had been peddling in Rugby from about 10.30 quite happily when a Rugby Ranger called Rob approached me at 2.30 and explained that pedlars licences weren’t recognised in Warwickshire. I needed to phone Rugby First on 01788 569436 and get permission. As I hadn’t got permission I had to leave. He then proceeded to follow me all the way back to my van, which took quite a while as I was trying to ignore him and had a few sales on the way. He kept saying ‘just go, go, just go,’.
I asked him if he knew anything about the pedlars laws, and he admitted he didn’t. I accused him of harassment, the miserable unpleasant bugger.
Sales were good in Rugby and I will be returning but I would rather do it in a friendly way. I do think that Rugby council should be told about the behaviour of this Rob bloke, who wouldn’t tell me his surname.
Anyway, thanks for any advice you could give me.
Regards, Simon