26 Aug 2013 – Police Scotland

Wendy emailed pedlars.info 26 Aug 2013:

I queried this under the Pedlar’s Act and was told that under the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982, the Pedlar’s Act 1871 did not apply. I asked which section they were relying on and it was section 39, which is all about Street Trading with the clear exemption for Pedlars!

I don’t want to rock the boat with them at the moment so I have applied for a Pedlar’s Certificate to sell some items door-to-door but I want to sell snack and drinks at my locals parks.

Are Pedlars allowed to sell in parks? I have been told I must apply for a tender to sell in my local park; for the other, I was told by the manager of the trust that runs the park that no-one is allowed to sell anything because that would be in competition with their gift shop and coffee shop! I think the parks are owned by the local councils (North and South Lanarkshire in Scotland). Can I sell in these parks with or without a Pedlar’s Certificate?

I have been forced to look into Pedlary because I have applied for a Street Trader’s License to sell hot dogs but because someone from a nearby church printed off a copy of a letter of objection and got a number of the church goers to sign it (over 100) I have been advised that it is likely that my street trading application will be refused; I will lose my application money and money on equipment; I cannot afford to re-apply and, even if I could, I am not allowed to re-apply in the this area for another year.

I just want to earn some money! The trouble is, I am legally qualified and also have a PhD in law, so I am very worried about getting any kind of conviction as this would ruin 12 years of studying law (not that I can get a job anyway!)…

I would love even a word of encouragement 🙂

Best wishes,

Wendy

reply from pedlars.info 28 Aug 2013:

Wendy

Thanks for the compliment to all at pedlars.info… there are many who find the site quite complicated… but pedlary law is just that and even our government is currently confused about what to do next… so it’s good to have the mind of a PhD to explore the legal subject in terms connected with a real human being and not a bureaucrat’s abstraction.
Please see my pink replies.
best wishes
Robert

Hello, thanks to your amazing site and Joolz’s great video, I recently applied for a Pedlar’s Certificate. I’m still waiting for it to be issued. I had wanted to sell in the street, however, I was informed by Licensing at Police Scotland (who issue a Pedlar’s Certificate for every force in Scotland) that I am not allowed to sell anywhere but door-to-door and, if I do, I will be committing an offence. excuse the language… bollocks! Lets begin at the beginning… the 1881 Pedlars Act removed the 1871 restriction on local jurisdiction to provide rights any place throughout the UK… in 1982 Scotland introduced identical Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act as applied to England & Wales… both state clearly that a pedlar is not street trading for the purposes of that Act… so the CGSA does not apply and a pedlar is exempt… I would like to have copy of the LPS information to the contrary with specific mention of the words “door-to-door” because there is history/context to that expression that you will find explored in detail at pedlars.info… originating in Westminster 1997 it has been the mantra of Roll A Parliamentary Agents & local authority sponsors of private legislation to harm/restrict/obfuscate pedlars ever since… but here’s the thing… it has been/is/and always will be “wishful thinking” as there is nothing in legislation/case law that defines a meaning of “door-to-door”… recent Select Committee Hearings on Bournemouth, Manchester, Reading, Leeds, Nottingham & Canterbury bills acknowledge in legislation that pedlars may trade house-to-house but for those who trade “other than from house to house” conditions may apply… those recent conditions do not apply to the adoptive LGMPA/CGSA… this upholds & is consistent with the 1881 PA… so a pedlar is entitled to visit houses, trade between houses, on the highway, any place that the public have free unfettered access… full stop… check “Offences” under the CGSA and you will find the offence of street trading without “licence” but pedlars are also traders in the street or street traders in generic language but see what happens when upper case S and upper case T is applied to Street Trading and that’s where police & LA confusion lies… since 1999 we pedlars have been asking government for legislative clarity & differentiation between pedlars & Street Traders… much on this subject is also on pedlars.info but in a nut-shell licensed Street Traders cause public liability with their cumbersome apparatus and by necessity require the safeguard of licensing… but pedlars are ambulant traders, as in with no fixed pitch/public liability any greater than an ordinary pedestrian/consumer… the apparatus of a pedlar must simply be of a pedestrian scale & proportion… this is now recognised by House of Lords to be the only valid complaint of councils throughout the UK and recent legislation reflects this… the HL report also states clearly that it is not within the remit of local authorities to determine what is fair or not fair… competition between traders of all sorts is in consumers best interests so LA may not protect licensed traders… that is enshrined in EU law which all member states have adopted under the EU Services Directive. I was also told that the ID issued will state on it that I am only allowed to sell door-to-door!!! Neither the PA nor the CGSA makes provision for endorsement of a Pedlars Certificate and any such endorsement may be considered unlawful… JR is required on that legal point that must establish what is the valid meaning of the expression “door-to-door” … you may also be aware that legislation provides that a pedlars certificate is not required for doorstep trading for goods under the value of £35… this makes a nonsense of the police case that your certificate restricts your trade or is even required for door-to-door trading… why would a pedlar even apply for a cert if selling yoyo’s to residents.
What you must always do is respond to each & every advice with “can you please refer me to where it is in legislation by way of exact textual reference… that I may check”.

I queried this under the Pedlar’s Act and was told that under the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982, the Pedlar’s Act 1871 did not apply. you will find many references if you type Civic Government Scotland Act into the search bar at pedlars.info… I asked which section they were relying on and it was section 39, which is all about Street Trading with the clear exemption for Pedlars! … you really have to press the individual about his/her knowledge of law/legislation and never be fobbed-off with “this is Scottish Law & not English Law”… all Scottish Case Law is argued on the basis of English precedent.

I don’t want to rock the boat with them at the moment so I have applied for a Pedlar’s Certificate to sell some items door-to-door … so if successful you can then defend trading in the street under the rightful pedlars common sense understanding that door-to-door means not only at doors but any place that does not establish a public liability such as a static shop… but I want to sell snack and drinks at my locals parks. … now this is an old issue best researched by these links: https://pedlars.info/history-of-pedlary & https://pedlars.info/foodstuff-article-update

I think these items (I’m not preparing or cooking any food, just selling chocolate, crisps and soft drinks) could be classed as “victuals” and perhaps not even need a Pedlar’s certificate, but again, I don’t want to risk selling without one…. victuals equates with foodstuffs and you are correct… under Section 23 PA a certificate is not required but… Sect 23 does not prevent obtaining a cert… when the 1871 Act was drafted people on streets needed local foodstuff providers and they were not to be penalised by a tax… if on the other hand the victuals trader was a travelling trader town to town then those traders would be taxed by way of paying for a certificate to trade… so don’t risk it because without a certificate you will be committing an offence of street trading without a license under the CSGA… under the Offences Section you will be taking “all reasonable precautions and excercising all due diligence to avoid commission of an offence”…

Are Pedlars allowed to sell in parks? moot point… pedlars may trade any place throughout the UK and Scotland is currently part of the UK… we say that pedlars may trade any place that the public has unfettered access and this then rules out private places where private arrangements/concessions may apply… I have been told I must apply for a tender to sell in my local park; for the other, I was told by the manager of the trust that runs the park that no-one is allowed to sell anything because that would be in competition with their gift shop and coffee shop! I think the parks are owned by the local councils (North and South Lanarkshire in Scotland). Can I sell in these parks with or without a Pedlar’s Certificate?

I have been forced to look into Pedlary because I have applied for a Street Trader’s License to sell hot dogs but because someone from a nearby church printed off a copy of a letter of objection and got a number of the church goers to sign it (over 100) I have been advised that it is likely that my street trading application will be refused interesting to see how lovely, compassionate, and considerate 100 parishioners can be… must one consider bribing the “One” to avoid such signatures; I will lose my application money and money on equipment; I cannot afford to re-apply and, even if I could, I am not allowed to re-apply in the this area for another year. so be it… pedlary is the way to go!

I just want to earn some money! The trouble is, I am legally qualified and also have a PhD in law what are your specialities?, so I am very worried about getting any kind of conviction as this would ruin 12 years of studying law (not that I can get a job anyway!)… your concern is that of many pedlars who face convictions only because of intentional confusion caused by those who want destruction of all rights of pedlars… to provide council revenue streams with monopoly powers… little fiefdoms throughout the lands… life itself may be moving towards becoming licensed

I would love even a word of encouragement 🙂 pink is a colour of happiness

Thanks again for a great site. It took some running around and cajoling to even be allowed to apply for a “door-to-door” pedlar’s certificate here in Scotland, so you guys in England should think yourselves lucky! 🙂 we don’t… the chronology of this battle exposes our struggle at pedlars.info… from our archives here’s another thought to ponder… Edinburgh police provide a local policy of recognition and tolerance toward bona fide pedlars… cross the land a few miles west and pedlars meet Glasgow policy of intolerance by Procurator Fiscal/police/councils… such a contrast in consciousness and reality for innocent hard working honest pedlars… be nice to hear that you decide to develop a speciality in pedlary law… we’d be delighted to join you one the journey of discovery and preservation of the Pedlars Act… with very best wishes… Robert et al… am happy to provide any reference links to the whole of the above

Best wishes,

Wendy

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